Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

hong tar aircon reviews


In addition to our core business of the installation and servicing of air-conditioners, Hong Tar supplies top quality air-con materials and equipment to air-con contractors.

Our professional work and high levels of customer satisfaction has enabled us to grow our business, we soon opened our first office at Jalan Mas Puteh before moving on to Hillview and later Eng Kong Terrace. By 2001, our first showroom was opened at the Police Cantonment Complex at New Bridge Road and this was followed by the opening of our IMM showroom and the Energy Efficient Products Information Centre (EEPIC) in July 2003. More such showrooms are in the pipeline to bring the idea of using energy-efficient appliances closer to Singaporeans.

With our commitment to attend to customer service requests within 24 hours and a fleet of 20 vehicles to carry out the business, all Hong Tar‘s installers are CIDB-certified. Our dedicated team of fifty professional staff are here to attend to all your air-conditioning needs.


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Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd
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 25 reviews
by u0206397 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Some people recommend Hong Tar in this forum perhaps from positive customer experience. But if you're jittery, you may want to stick to bigger dealers like Courts or Gain City, where they can't possibly run away or deny responsibilities if the aircon system or installation go awry.
Nevertheless, air-con installation can be a hit-and-miss affair. Some customers have positive experience with one company, while some others may have problems with the same company.

Note: I must stress that I'm not affiliated with any of the dealers mentioned above, I do not have any vested interest in them and I do not have any personal experience with them as a customer. I am not trying to promote them and I cannot vouch for their product/service quality.

In many cases, air-con installation service is outsourced to third party companies, so there is no guarantee that if you order from a particular dealer with many positive reviews or track records, you will be assured of a positive trouble-free customer experience, though reputation and reviews from past customers can still be reassuring. Conversely, dealers with poor track records can provide positive experience for some of their customers.

Much depends on which installation team get assigned to your order and this process is pretty opaque. You don't really have a choice or get to pick the team yourself. So much depends on luck.

Price-wise, it is pretty competitive. Price differences for same air-con configuration between dealers usually hover +/- $200 which is not much, and sometimes it may be good to pay a little bit more for quality installation service than to end up with more troubles and to keep haggling the dealer to send someone down to fix up problems later on. May not be wise to pick the cheapest one. Again installation service quality is hard to prove or judge at the beginning when choosing a dealer to place your order. Only when the team arrives to install or when you call up for after-sale support service, you can see its level of professionalism and dedication to perform the service.

Hope my info helps

by leechingyuan on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Oh ok.. do you have any recommended aircon repair man? Feel so cheated by Hong Tar.

by jEFFpiLLow on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

after 3 weeks of ding-dong, sealed my aircon fate wif hong tar.

[2] To supply and install one set of “Mitsubishi Heavy” multi split inverter 1 to 4 aircon $4,900.00
M/N: SCM80/SKM28 x 2/SKM35/SKM75 for bedroom 2, 3, Master Bedroom &
Living Hall.

To supply and install the air-conditioners with standard one roll of G22 copper pipe not exceed 15 m per fan coil unit, 1/2 thick insulation class”O” thermaflex insulation for indoor unit and black rubber class ‘1’ insulation for outdoor unit, 16mm pvc pipe, pvc trunking and cable.

by V.lee7373 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Hong Tar EngineeringHi, got a rude shock when I called Hong Tar in Enterprise Hub on Wed. Request 4 offer 2 replace my aircon. Quoted $2650 but bcos it concealed piping, the salesgirl inf they hv to make a visit to my plc. If I do not order frm them, they will charge me $30 for the sales call! State this is their policy and best I contact GainCity if I do not want to pay 4 sales visit. Ask to speak to her supervisor but "all r busy". Probably business too good. Contact GanCity - offer price $2140. Sales visit - no obligation. Sign with Gain City aft their salesguy visit.

by ronnie on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Can try Hong Tar #02-15 or Gain City #02-64 / #03-14, both at IMM

by chunlianghere on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Hong Tar also got really bad complain also.. u might wan to look at this page, Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??
majority get aircon from gain city, n their review is gd.

wat model is yr current one? since u already installed inverter, which giv u alot of problem(servicing for inverter is exp), does not save u electricity. mayb u shld go for non-inverter than..

for brand, it up to u lor. but if for non-inverter, 3 tick, system-3, Daikin would be the choice. as from the search at coolserve.com.sg, there is toshiba n daikin, but Daikin has the higher COP, thus better.

but for yr info, Daikin only makes aircon..

by stormcontrol on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

The problem i had with hong tar's installation mainly was with how the tech filled up the huge holes he drilled in my walls. Up till yesterday, (nearly a week after installation) the white stuff he used to fill up the holes was still wet and spongy. Moreover, for the huge lobang in my living room, the white stuff was actually bulging out like some sort of tumour on my wall >_<" Apparently the stuff that the air-con techie used to fill up the hole he drilled was painters' caulk. Something sorta like silicone... I think it was because my wife was the one jaga-ing him that time and he thought he could be lazy. Ha, that came back and bit him on his a**. Anyway, i made him dig out all the caulk and resealed the holes with white cement. Also realised that he left gaps between my trunking and my walls when he did the installation the last time, so i also made him fill up those little gaps with the silicone/painters' caulk. I think for now, my air-con issue should be settled le. For those thinking of using Hong Tar, i think they're ok lah. Price-wise is competitive, materials used seems to be good, sales will try their best to give you best advice but are not pushy. But installation need to pay closer attention in case the techie eat snake lor.

by copp3r on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

After contemplating for a few weeks, i finally decided to get system-2 Inverter Mitsubishi Electric from Hong Tar. They finished the installation about 3 hrs ago. The 2 guys who did the installation were pleasant and answered all my queries.
So far so good.
They first set it at 23 celcius. Was quite cold. I'm settling with 27 celcius for now.

by Spongy on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Mine is using system 4 condenser with 3 blowers, so as to max out the power of the blower if all 3 are switched on. Total paid near to $4k, inclusive GST. Material wise, it is among the best as recommended by the blog that i had posted earlier, class 0 and guage 22 (I think). Dunno what is the btu rating of the condenser but is the normal Daikin MKXXXX for R410A inverter as both system 3 and 4 has only one type of condenser.
I have called a few installers including Natural cool, Coolserve, DS?, Mr cool etc and Hong Tar gives me the best quotes. But be prepared to have long waiting time for them to come to install at your place as their schedule is quite packed. My in-laws place is still under-going renovation, so the installation is not complete yet so I can't comment on the workmanship.

You might also want to try to get quotations from the other shops listed by the aircon blog. It did helped me to get better quotes.

by simmo2741 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

The Saga with Hong Tar continues... I have a questions at the end of it if anyone wants to skip the long story and just offer some advise on a different system you don't have to read my rant.

Saturday morning we called them up to see if the appointment was made... Told they will check and get back to us, no one did. Took another 4 calls and still surprise surprise they haven't arranged anything. The person we spoke to before who said he would sort it out for us (Sales Manager) has gone away for the long weekend and will not be back until Tuesday.

Asked to speak to that persons boss, was told there wasn't one, asked for the owner and told that was the sales manager and that there was no one who could help us. (Really unbelievable!! sales manager = owner. Wouldn't you call yourself the CEO/Director if you were really the owner) Told they will try to contact someone then call us back. No one did.

Called them back and told them we wanted the last payment back as they haven't provided a good enough aircon system for the place and that they are not taking any responsibility to resolve the issue. They kept telling us they can't do anything until Tuesday! & fujitsu would be closed until Monday so no appointment can be made.

Went down the shop to be pushy and demand someone sort it out and to request to speak with the owner. (we were told over the phone that there was no point coming down as they will still not help us or be able to return the money)

When we got there they had suddenly got their butts in gear and arranged an appointment with fujitsu for Monday 3-5pm. They told us Fujitsu will send down the Sales Manager & technicians to do the full tests (using a computer) and Hong Tar's engineers will also attend. They also agreed that the engineers will bring a check to return the last payment. Informed the lady serving us that it needs to be fixed by 8th Feb as all our furniture is arriving then and if they need to replace the system we will need to redo the renovation work/box up before the furniture arrives. They committed to providing a solution for us at the end of the Monday.

We walked over to IMM to check out the aircon shops to see if they have any demo sets, one shop had a demo of an older 9K Btu fujitsu model we turn it on and at a medium speed it had a stronger stength wind/airflow than the 18K Btu in our living room on high power. They showed us the specs and on paper it should be less powerful than a new 9 Btu model in our bedrooms. Really makes me think there is a problem with the amount of air coming out of our system.

Monday 1pm Hong Tar called and said engineers will arrive at 2pm & Fujitsu will arrive at 2:30pm. Hong Tar guys arrive on time & turned the aircon on then sat down and waited for fujitsu. Fujitsu arrive at 3:45pm Only person that shows up is the Sales Manager, he walks in feels the aircon by the fans and says all ok no problem!!! so annoyed!! walk away from the fan coil and it is still hot & humid you fool!! both wife and myself took leave for some guy to come and test it with his hand after it has been cooling a room for 1.5 hours!! We could have told him it was blowing out cold air, we want to know why is it not cooling our apartment adequately.

Phoned up Hong Tar and got told they will call us back. Wife got very angry tried calling the Hong Tar sales manager's handphone that he previous gave us, it was finally switched on and he answered, she went mad at him, why is her time being wasted again (she has a problem at work that needs to be fixed so shouldn't have really been taking leave), why are no tests being done, why are you not taking ownership of it like you told us you would before you went away. etc He told her he will find out what was happening then get back to her (he never did and never answered his phone for the rest of the day. So irresponsible if you are to believe he is meant to be the owner!!)

Spent the next hour arguing with the Fujitsu Sales guy, explaining what we did at IMM and why is an old 9K btu stronger than our new 18Kbtu. We get nonsense from him like, can't compare 9K with 18K have to compare 18K with 18K! He went off and made some phone calls and came back and said fujitsu can only do a test on Wednesday and they will need to test for 3-4 days.

The original Hong Tar lady finally called back and we ask why wasn't this all arranged before, how can they commit to providing a solution end of day Monday when fujistu need 3-4 days to test and why did they tell us more tests would be done today when nothing was planned by fujitsu. She kept saying have to test so no option, told her there is no way I could take 4 days leave for this and it would cause a problem with the furniture arriving & any possible reno work that needs to be redone. Reminded her that she had committed a solution to me today and that I would like one with in 30mins (5:30pm) (As they have already wasted another afternoon of our leave really do not want anymore of my time wasted)

Fujitsu guy then started saying the aircon was positioned in the wrong location (if it is why did Hong Tar advise the current locations)

red is current location, blue is fujitsu recommended location. Grey is the area being cooled to an ok level after 1-2 hours.

I could agree on the bedroom and understand why technically it might be better but wife doesn't want it blowing on the bed, and her view is it's only 3x4m room so should be cooling if the aircon was working properly.

For the living room, it seams a bit silly, it's an old flat with a low ceiling they want to mount it on a beam in the middle of the room between the living and dining pointing to the living room area. They also advise to boxup the beam to hide the trunking which would make it even lower. It wouldn't be facing the dining area at all. All you would really be doing is pointing it different so the 2 meter area that it currently cools is where you sit most of the time.

It got to 5:40pm and Hong Tar called, this time is was a different lady, (After checking with the engineers she turns out to be the 'lady boss')

She said there is nothing they can do so they will uninstall the system and take it back and return the price of the fan coil to us!!! They can't even come up with a solution!!

She said I have too much of a high expectation of what is cold and the fujitsu guy says his system is working correctly and there is no issue.

So frustrating, my wife, our contractor, friends that have popped by to take a look at the renovation work all agree that there is something not right with the aircon performance and their HDBs all cool within 15mins on low power.

I explained to her the test we did at IMM and how the air flow is alot less, reminded her that on the first visit her technicians also agreed it was not right to take so long to cool a room. (This visit they were saying it was an acceptable temp, today was cloudy and cooler than the previous day they tested, it took 1.5 hours on high power to get cold in the living room, and it was still hot and humid if you were not standing within the range of the blowing air. If you turned it to low power the living and master bedroom would start to heat up again) No additional tests had been done by Fujitsu to confirm the output of air was correct yet she was happy to take their word that it was working ok.

She then said well we will give you that fujitsu model/system you tested in IMM then if it doesn't work there would be nothing more they can do. Told her to not be stupid and I wasn't here to do her job and come up with a sensible solution. They are the experts and should be able to make a judgment on what is the best options. I got a "we have already sold you our best solution and it isn't good enough for you"

In the end she called back and said upgrade to a MHI inverter system 4 compressor, put 9BTU in the study/small bedroom, 12BTU in the master bedroom and 24BTU in the living room and top up the difference of $800. There will be more cost if they relocate the fan coils to fujitsu's recommended positions due to piping and they will let us know that cost later. (Plus additional boxup cost by the contractor and redo current box up if they change that piping)

The most annoying thing that I have found from dealing with them has been the lack of service as it just frustrates you more and more.

1) When ever you try to talk they try to cut you off and talk over you, you then just end up raising your voice and have to shout firmly to get your point across, which makes you more angry and frustrated.

2) They will check and call you back..... Then never call you back. It just seams like a tactic to get you off the phone.

3) Time wasted with appointments where nothing will be tested.


I read a page or so back in this thread thexenomorph mentioned his MHI Inverter isn't that cold. If they are going to replace the system and install a more powerful one, what brands would people recommend?

by simmo2741 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

After reading the posts here I went with Hong Tar to do my aircon install due to all the positive comments on them.
So far I have been really disappointed by their service.

The only things they did good were

1) Showing the materials were the specs you had purchased
2) Laying the pipes

Stuff they have done badly...

1) Installing the fan coil (not enough gas, not tested properly)
2) Customer service (not returning calls, not arranging follow up appointments, avoiding answering questions and 'sing song')
3) Possibly under quoted the BTU (fujitsu claim this is the cause of the issue)
4) Explaining the difference between inverter and non inverter (just said saves electric as the compressor doesn't run on full power, after install they claim have to run fan coils on high power, takes a longer time to cool a room than non inverter)
5) Made what appears to be false statements (Inverter aircon has to run on high fan speed which fujistu disagree with, also checked with friends with inverter systems and they say low is fine. They will test a system for 3 hours to make sure no leaks but only tested for a short time to see if the fan coil blows out cold air)
6) Wasting our time (saying no need to attend an appointment with the fujitsu service guys, then saying fujitsu didn't do the right tests so 2nd appointment needed where Hong Tar will also attend)

Feeling very at them.

If anyone is interested the long story is below so you can make your own judgments....

They recommended a 9K BTU in both the bedrooms and 18K in the living room and suggested we go with either Fujitsu or MHI Inverter system 3. We went with fujitsu as it has a slightly shorter size fan coil and would fit better on the beam.

They came and did the piping without any issues then came and installed the fan coils. They then tested for 15-30mins (the sales person told me they would test for 3 hours) told my wife the fan coil is getting cold so is ok and asked for the money then left.

When I came home to test it and see what it was like. On high fan speed 18 degrees the master bedroom(3x4.4 meter room) took 1 hour to get cool, but still not near 'aircon cold' it still also felt humid in the room especially on the side furthest from the aircon. The living room after 2 hours was even worse only the area 2 meter around the fan coil was cool the rest of the room was very hot and humid still. I stay in a 3 room point block HDB , the rooms are not that big (but funny layout for living/dining & kitchen) In 8 years in Singapore I have never had to use aircon on anything more than low speed.

Called them up and asked them to send people down again, they told us it was likely due to 'Singapore has been hot recently!' and that they will get back to us. They never did, it took 4 phone calls and asking to speak to a manager to get someone to come and check the installation. At first they told us it would be 3-4 days before someone can come. Had to get angry and push for someone to come at the end of the day as they didn't test properly during the install. Still had to phone back to chase them to get the confirmation.

The same guys who installed it came down that evening and said gas pressure was on the low range. They topped it up and the fan coils did seam a bit more cooler but still didn't cool the rooms fully.

When I asked why it was this bad on high power, they told us that inverter aircon is like that and you have to use high power all the time. They also said it will take a lot longer to cool a room than a non inverter system. If this is true and they had made this clear when I was buying it I would have never picked a inverter system as it would keep me awake a night and be to loud when watching TV. If it's hot in the night and you cant sleep you wouldn't want to wait an hour for it to cool the room to a comfortable sleeping temperature.

They agreed it didn't seam right that it wasn't cooling the rooms and said they will arrange for fujitsu to come and check.

We ask if they could also be present when Fujitsu come but they insisted there was no need.

Fujitsu came and did some tests (checked gas and fan coil, off fan coil and room temp) and said everything is fine, fan coil is cold enough, pressure is right, air flow normal. I asked them why is it this bad on high power and is it true what Hong Tar said about inverter has to be on high all the time. They said this was not true and can be used on any speed, they said it was not enough BTU for the room space. (but wouldn't write this on the report when I asked)

We went back to Hong Tar office and asked to speak to a manager, a guy came out and each time I asked him a question he would 'sing song', talk over me when I started to speak and not give direct answers. He push the blame back to fujitsu and said they didn't test properly and that they need to plug in a computer to test. He said he will arrange a 2nd visit where Hong Tar will also attend (couldn't they have done this when we asked the first time and not waste my leave again!) they would not commit to a date for the next visit, saying it also depends on fujitsu and wouldn't give a clear answer on what options were available if they had under quoted the BTU. To give them credit they did say that if fujistu system is working correctly they will replace it with a different system. I asked 'if fujitsu system is working isn't there a risk they worked out the BTU wrong (especially in the living room with the funny layout) and the other system will make no difference' They responded with 'we would not get it wrong as we install 100s of aircon' & some aircons brands are not good for Singapore weather (if fujitsu is one of those why recommend to us!!)

Thursday they never called to confirm that the 2nd appointment has been made. We now have to go chase them again.

For a company that is meant to be good, I am really surprised at how bad their service has been if you face a problem.

Will post a update if they resolve the issue and if their level of service improves...

by beiyuan on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

I'm getting from Hongtar, because i nvr seen a bad comment about them. Let's see if the first bad comment comes from me. haha
BTW, does anyone know why they use different units combinations? Base on what room configuration will they decide on a units combinations? See following units combinations:

MXY-4A28VA / MSXY-GA10VA x 2 / MSXY-GA13VA x 2

Hong Tar told me it has something to do with the distance of each unit from the compressor.
but Coolserve told me that it ONLY depends on the size of each room, not distance or anything else.

by SixYardBox on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

This forum has been an invaluable source of research for me. Hope to pay it forward! Mitusbishi Electric System 2 (non-inverter) MUX-3D23VD - $1670 from Hong Tar The above includes installation and steel bracket. Did not upgrade the insulation. Sorry I'm not familiar with the technical terms.

by sonic on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Last time I compare, Hong Tar is cheaper but pay cash only.Installation also good as advise by other forumer.

Sometime not only see aircon price, must see the installation skill & material too.
When I bought mine Toshiba from Gaincity, Allbest was selling at around $200 cheaper,
but I read too much bad installation by AB so I rather get from GC as most my my friend
also recommended GC.
Also i going for credit card installment, so bought from GC. BTW GC is giving 3years
installation warranty.
So far my installation is ok, just 1 of the fan coil got funny noise after 1 month & Toshiba
replaced a new set for me.

by sonic on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

I so far check the aircon price never heard of the limit..
You can call up Gain City or Hong tar to check/compare price.

by henrywoo1978 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Hi andy_sg_123, Well for I also bought my Fujitsu from Hong Tar at $2.53k. Do note that my fancoil configuration is 12k for master bedroom and 9k for the other 2 rooms (so its sys. 3 lah...). So what you need to ask GC about the package is: 1. The thickness of the insulation (i.e. 3/8" or 1/2", as for the type no need to ask, cause GC only give armaflex). This is important as if want to increase to 1/2", you will need to fork out another $240 if I am not wrong. 2. The fancoil configuration. The reason being for my case, if I buy 3 x 9k fancoil, it would only cost me $2.45k. So you might want to ask the salesperson if 9k is enough to cool your MBR. Last but not least, think you can just choose between the 2, cause they are reputable names for aircon (at least so far ever hear any complains against them.)

by alvynn on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Today just placed an order for Fujitsu inverter sys 3 at Hong Tar and was quoted (ASYA09LA * 2, ASYA12LA *1 and AOYA24LAT3) for $2770 plus bracket. Keep pressing for service voucher but the lady don't give. Anyone just order from Hong Tar recently?

by henrywoo1978 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Hello Commando, we are starting our reno next week. Will ask TinyEyes to update in our neighbourhood thread. So hows your reno getting along. Think you also very buzy, never see you post anything nowadays. Haha. As for aircon, think you read my thread earlier. I was quoted $2.9 for both Starmex and Toshiba. Well one reason why I did not buy the starmex is that one one of the sales lady at Best Tech told me that the Starmex model is 4 years old!! (Well someone correct me if I am wrong). And well actually I wanted to buy the Toshiba model, cause its the only brand that have "Made in Japan" label. Was also quoted $2.9. Then as mentioned in earlier thread, I went to Hong Tar and they say they are havinf this promo for Fujitsu (the latest one), selling at $2.53k. (Please see previous thread for specs). Well as mentioned, this is the best spec that i have come across so far. GC is selling $2.93k for the same fujitsu model (but with $300 NTUC voucher). So in the end decided to order from Hong Tar. Can seriously consider this one as the offer is coming to and end really soon (think its end of this month if I am not wrong.) You can call them to confirm on this. Hope this information helps.. Cheers

by nomoney25 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

I got the air con from jurong west hong tar.One single spilt inverter fujitsu for living (30k btu) and mitsubishi sys 3 non-inverter for bed room (all 9k btu) Price is abt $4.5k, but i pay 24 month CC installment, have to another add 5% for that,reason for higher cost is also i upgrade the piping also....walau

by nomoney25 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

I always feel that Hong tar aircon is more expensive than other...they will never reduce the price even u told them some other shops are selling cheaper, but i still choose to buy it from hong tar cause they are the company where i seldom see any complaints from other internet forumers.Buying aircon not just the brand but the workmanship and the installation are very important!! Initially i intend to get Gain city but i heard someone that they will sell the aircon as 1 time installation only,in the end i choose hong tar...i never give damm to this allbest and best tech as complaint to them are super high.
hong tar tech will be coming to new home later to do the first installation, do take note abt term and condition, some shops can give cheaper price cause they using smaller 3/8 insulation and G24 (thiner) copper pipe and will do in 1 time installation only ,usually it cost $150-$200 to upgrade the material,

by ekardo on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

went to so many places recommended by friends...natural cool..hongtar...and some no company one..their quotation is scary..

and know what? I ordered from All best (sharp system 3)...

wish me "all the best" ??

by sleepnsleep2003 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

I think you mean Hong Tar right? For those need the contact, do a search 'Hong Tar' in the net and will find the contact.
I bought my system 3 star mex from them, non-inverter 1.9K+ that time almost 1 yr ago. Service very good. They install the things properly and not rushing the work. They will go on-site to check & discuss where to lay the trunking. Arranged another date and will instal it.

Bought Mitshubishi coz it claims to be the quietest aircon at the point when i bought mine. And true enough, I don't find it noisy. I am those who cannot sleep with noise/ sound. Confirm wake up.

by Nakedtoes on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

Both are good but i did a research mitshibushi is better... try Hong tai in IMM.. i regret nv get from them... and i regret to get from ALLBEST..
Do you really need air con in living room?? or on only weekends?? if only weekends then dun bother

by ridhwan82 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

hi D3, i would say that the price would be okay, but you can scout around first try HonX TaY replace the X with g and the Y with r . c o m . s g and find their location they have several branches. or even with "s e r v e" " c o o l" . c o m . s g swap the words above

by ridhwan82 on Hong Tar Engineering Pte Ltd

hi nurse you can try honX taY.. you can locate them at the website w w w. h o n X t a Y . c o m.s g can try there okie? change the above X to g and Y to r..